The way back (E08)

+ Transcript

Conversation for a better tomorrow - Episode 08

The way back

Sean Oldham 0:01 Part of it was just that my relationship with myself really truly sucked right? Because the more that I did things that were completely out of alignment with who I actually was, the more I hated myself for it.

Luke Fenwick 0:17 Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining us for episode eight of 'A conversation for a better tomorrow'. Today we're talking with my co host Sean about the life he has created thus far. And what he sees in the future going forward. Dad, husband, father of one about to be two, money EQ coach and quote "sharer-extraordinaire'. He talks about many things, his battle with alcohol to the vision of being a father shaping the reality of his today. This is a wonderful conversation, and we are so excited to share it. So with that, let's get to the show.

Welcome back. I'm looking forward to this one. Sean, how you tell us a little bit about the family right now, new house. Number two on the way how has life changed over these last 12 months?

Sean Oldham 1:19 That's the fun part, you know, looking back and seeing how much it's actually changed. You know, like, whenever you take on a new venture or step into your own lane, I've never been an entrepreneur before. So you know, the last 12 months, I have felt all of the emotions rather all of them, you know, fear, panic, bravery, bravado, I had to push that one aside really quickly. But yeah, it's it's it's been a wild ride, I'm just happy I stayed in the game long enough to see it, you know, become something successful. But you know, in terms of family new house is in love with this new house. You know, I love that there's like a, you know, big bit of nature behind us, that I can go venture into and go meditate down by the creek, you know, the Tessa, you know, my wife has been an absolute soldier. She's still working, and you know, running a restaurant, six, seven bit months pregnant. And you know, the only thing, Lily has a cold you like you don't Sometimes kids just have a hard time passing a cough. So we're three and a bit weeks into it, even though the doctors aren't concerned, but it just sucks looking at your daughter, cough. And, you know, it seems to be getting better. But it's, you know, it's one of those things, I talked to a doctor and I'm like, you don't get it. It's three and a bit weeks still coughing like Yeah, but if she's got the energy, and she's still good, you know, the doctors don't seem to be concerned. So you know, we just got to be patient, I guess. But outside of that man, everything's great. Truly, truly focus on gratitude and grateful for where we're at. About You, though, I know that I know that this is you know, my show and then yours is happening in a couple of weeks. And the you know, the the lens goes back on you but, you know, where are you at? I know you're busy, you know, took on a job for your whole basketball club and, you know, still coaching, taking on clients a lot going on with what's new with you, how are you managing at all?

Luke Fenwick 3:01 It's really tough, to be quite honest, I've got nine clients on the go at the moment. And, you know, last night I had a new client start every, every new client I have starts with a two hour session. So that finished it, you know, 1030 last night, and then you kind of get into bed and read a bit of a book, I'm doing still doing the book thing, then up this morning at 630 to you know, get in the gym. So, you know, it's been a bit of a struggle to be quite honest, and just trying to find the time to you know, allocate everything, you know, I'm back at the club, doing some work with them on their business program, that will finish at the end of July. So trying to fit all that in and then trying to squeeze what is in essence, you know, full time job of my coaching thing into a couple of days a week, as has been really difficult to do. And then you know, trying to do everything with the family and stuff like that. But, you know, what do you do? Do you sit there and while I want it and go you know you kind of suck it up and I'm doing this for a particular reason. And you know, that's that will pass and come to an end in July and then the coaching stuff will really start to go crazy. And there's a lot of a lot of things I've got planned coming up for it, you know, made mentioned before about working for HR business. So they've got me on board to do some coaching, we're looking to do something in the other state around event online stuff. So there's a fair bit happening at the moment, but loving, loving every moment and the moments that are challenging. I'm just trying to find, you know, how do I learn in that? That's and that's the honest truth. You know, there's lots of ups and downs, but I'm just trying to learn and be better each and every day. And that's not a cliche thing. That's just where I'm at at the moment.

Sean Oldham 4:38 No, you're you're bang on that man. And I might not have been as you know, honest, the last month has been quite challenging because you can't take a kid with a cough to daycare during a pandemic and you probably shouldn't anyways, you know, I mean, so there's been a lot of calling audibles and a lot of, you know, like on the fly and I've had to a lot of my work time has been slashed. So you know the blessing side of it though, is that I've had to literally get like crystal clear on what are the value added activities? And what in times of a crunch can get shelved, right? So, you know, I've still managed to grow the business and bring on some new clients even while you know, really having my time restricted. So I think that's the blessing, if you look for it in the hard times, is you learn how to become, you know, more efficient, you learn how to get more out of yourself in less time. And then when that time opens up again, oh, my goodness, man, you know, it's it's like the game has changed. So, yeah, it's a, you know, there's always a silver lining if you look for it.

Luke Fenwick 5:38 Absolutely, absolutely. But we are here today, you know, new show, new title and new branding. And, you know, you are, in essence, our first guest, co host, but first guest and today's 100%, you know, dedicated to you waving away, thank you so much. And, you know, I know that you've been on a lot of shows, and I know that you don't shirk away from it, and you're happy to share your experiences and, you know, enabling people to grow, but, you know, absolutely, it's been well spoken about the challenges with alcoholism. And I want to work our way up to rock bottom. So I don't really want to start there. So let's head back to the earliest times, you know, some of those amazing memories before you got to that point, you know, what do you what do you recall?

Sean Oldham 6:23 Well, you know, I did have an amazing childhood, you know, I there's no like, mine is not the story of you know, like the good that had everything working against him, right and just didn't really have a chance from the start. That's not what my story was, you know, loving family granted, you know, only had my parents and in Vancouver in the small pocket of Canada had no other family, you know, as my closest family otherwise was in Quebec, like, you know, five hour flight across the country or in New Zealand. So, you know, like family friends made up for that and you know, you'd spent a lot of time with you know, sports teams and doing a lot of different things. I definitely missed out a little bit, you know, the the closeness of like, you know, connected family, but that you know, I can't really say that that was a reason the overall there were still a lot of trips out east to visit the family. There's still a lot of connectedness even though there was a lot of distance. But you know, I got to play all the sports I played hockey as a downhill ski racer did a lot of camping, you know, truly grateful for that getting to appreciate nature, my dad is basically could could live in the woods, and he'd be happy. You know, so I fell in love with nature. And I still have that, you know, going overnight, don't get to do it as much now but you know, overnight, you know, hiking and camping, excursions, things like that, surfing camping on the beach in on Vancouver Island some of the things that I'm absolutely at my happiest when doing those things, I got to do a lot of that as a kid. So you know, that there was a lot of happy memories, there was a lot of good memories. And, you know, it's as we talked about this kind of pinpointing, when that started to change. I've been thinking about that, in anticipation of this. And a lot of interesting insights actually came out in preparation of this and just kind of thinking, like, when did it start to change? When did I go from just kind of being a really happy kid, to then all of a sudden, having a vision of kind of what I wanted to achieve, or what I thought I should achieve, being completely skewed from who I truly was. And I came up with some interesting dynamics. So you know, I'm gonna let the questions keep coming in, but the background, there's a lot of happiness, there was a lot of joy, there was a lot of happiness. You know, the only one thing that I did miss was, you know, I saw a lot of people that had extended family around and like big family gatherings. I did miss not getting to have those a little bit more often, you know, because like when we did get to have them, they were so fantastic. But there were such large gaps in between and you know, it didn't make it out to New Zealand much. But overall, I was blessed there was so many people that would have traded places with me if they could so they can't can't look at the upbringing as a as a fault or blame.

Luke Fenwick 9:13 I love the idea of sleeping on a beach Did you say camping sleeping on a beach surfing?

Sean Oldham 9:19 Yeah, there's a beach in on Vancouver Island that you can camp on. And in the winter, it has much better surf than in the summertime. And that's like, that's truly one of the best experiences I don't know why I prefer to cold water surf. It's not that I won't warm water surf. But having grown up out here, it's something about earning it you know, putting on the wetsuit like soldiering through the icy temperature. Getting out there for a good solid surf like I've even been sir. I've even been surfing when like the beaches covered in snow, and we've got like a downpour of snow happening. And that's one of the coolest things I have ever done in my life is surfing and I'm looking at the shore and it's just getting doused in snow.

Luke Fenwick 9:57 Wow. That's very, very cool. Love that I'm not sure if I'd be out there with you, I think I'd be trying to sit on the beach. And under some kind of thermal blankets and a bonfire, you'll add a bonfire on the beach? They're out of curiosity.

Sean Oldham 10:11 The depends on the beach. The one I was out when it was snowing, no, but Sombrio, like a different part of the island, that we're we're definitely allowed to have fires there. And it's, it's one of the it's one of my favorite places to go and camp and just be in nature. So that's got to happen again soon. Yeah.

Luke Fenwick 10:32 So when, when did this...when did you start to feel? The shift? Or, looking back when did you start to go? Okay, maybe there is a problem here? Or was it something that you started to see or feel? Or people talking to you about it? Like, where? And how did they shift start to happen?

Sean Oldham 10:54 I think because I worked in the restaurant industry, you know, the hospitality industry, for such a long time. Drinking excessively is normalized in that industry, you know, like you, you make a bunch of money, you have some drinks after work, you go to another bar, and that you get absolutely wasted. And that's a Tuesday, you know, and it was just like it was just being done by all of your colleagues, or most of your colleagues most of the time, right? It was just kind of lifestyle. So from the first moment, I got drunk, I absolutely loved it, like the memory is just kind of like this was absolutely amazing, like, my world has changed. And that probably is warning sign number one. Even though I got an immense hangover and vomited for an entire day, and I was still thinking about, you know, how do I get, you know, my hands on some more booze and then go and have a good time again, but for a while I got it under control. And for the longest time, I was just a social drinker. And I would not drink on my own. And I think when it changed was when I first kind of entertained the concept of... it because before that, it was it was just social, like, I would never just pour myself one. And I think it was around my mid 20s. And that I started either just, you know, having like a vodka on the rocks, or, you know, just a whiskey, you know, after work, like once I'd gotten home, so I extended the drinking. And the one thing that I realized looking back, and you know, there's no fault being blamed here. But knowing what I know now about, you know, as Earl Nightingale says "you become what you think about". But like what you what is like heavily on your mind, you have a high likelihood of becoming, even if you're trying to tell yourself not to become that thing. Right? So having a history of addiction and alcoholism on, you know, my dad's side of the family, he was very, very focused on letting me know how I had an increased likelihood of being susceptible to this because it was in the family. So could there have been a better way to describe it? I don't know. I'm not sitting here with the answer. But I was definitely obsessing over that, from day one going, I could very likely become an alcoholic, I could very likely become an addict. And be careful to like, not drink too much. But that was always in the back of my mind, I could never get rid of that idea. So looking back on it now, I definitely think that played a role, even though it was planted there to you know, have me think about why not to go there, it ended up kind of becoming an obsession, and from around my mid 20s on is when I kind of realized the mid to late 20s. I was like this, this isn't healthy, you know, what I do isn't healthy. And I know, at some point, I'm going to have to change this. But you know, I kept like, I just I didn't my thinking was not very good. Like, my thinking was not very good. And it was aided by substance. And you know, the moment that I would try to tell myself, I'm not drinking anymore, or I'm taking a break, or I'm doing this then you know, Friday would happened or you know, even like any random Wednesday, where enough people were getting off work and going to the bar. And that was a good enough idea. And just lifestyle. You know, it was just it was it just never crossed my mind long enough that I should get a handle on this before it gets out of hand. I kind of had in the back of my mind. Like, I'll know when it's time to quit. And I wish I hadn't had that strategy. Because that led me to having a get much worse before it got better. But to answer your question, no, I saw it coming. You know, and like the sad thing is, is not that's not just with alcoholism, there's a lot of people that are living a life in one way or another where they have a compulsion or you know, they have an addiction to work or you know that they have really unhealthy relationships and they know that these are not working for them. But it's a weird thing in the human condition that if it's familiar, it doesn't matter if it sucks, right? It's safer because it's familiar. And you know, looking back on it now I can say That's probably why I held on to agony for a lot longer than I needed to. But I definitely saw it coming. I definitely knew it was unhealthy. And I kept going anyways.

Luke Fenwick 15:11 So it's a bit like, they often talk about, you know, car accidents, and, you know, deserted road or not much out, you know, nobody driving on this road. And often people drive into these massive big trees. And what's going on is the mind kind of focuses on don't hit that tree, don't hit that tree, don't hit that tree, and they just kind of crash into the tree. And I suppose that's kind of what you're saying, right? It was, you know, don't, don't go down this path. Don't go down this path. But you're walking down that path, as you're saying to yourself, and was it a, was it a mindset thing? Or was a just the, just the access and the, you know, the habit that formed over time, and just being in that environment that was driving it for you? Like what, you know, what was it was it internal thing or an external thing?

Sean Oldham 16:02 It was a combination of several things, you know, being able to kind of look back and connect the dots now, you know, being able to look back and kind of knowing what I know, the training I've undergone. And you know, the amount of study of the human mind that I've done, because I was, you know, just bloody curious about how, you know, my life got taken over for an entire decade, you know, and I wanted to do a lot of digging to kind of find out how in the hell did that happen? And how can I help other people, you know, not go there, but not just with alcohol, like just reprogramming of the mind in general to just kind of forego decades of pain, because it doesn't just affect you, it affects family members, it affects a lot of people. So, it's....

Part of it was just that my relationship with myself really truly socked right, because the more that I did things that were completely out of alignment with who I actually was, the more I hated myself for it, right? But then this need that we have for consistency, kind of forced me to keep going in that direction anyways, even though it wasn't me and I like I hated it. I wasn't about, you know, having multiple partners deep down, I wasn't about that life, you know, like about just treating, you know, women as a badge of honor, if you will. But you know, I hung out with some people that thought that that was really cool, you know, and I gave them more value than they probably should have and looked up to the wrong people and just kind of got into a lifestyle that I thought based on looking at the music videos and looking at popular culture, I was doing the right things. But, you know, I was what's that Gandhi quote, where, you know, "when your thoughts, beliefs and actions are in alignment... that's when you are most truly alive". And I know, I just butchered it, but it's something along those lines. Mine were in every other direction. Like, I was not pointing in one direction, not even close, you know, and so therefore, I wasn't living a life that was authentically my own. And I hated myself for not being able to turn it around and have the bravery to just live much more simple life where I explore adventure and get into nature and do the things that I truly love. But I was living a life that was just so so out of alignment with who I deep down knew that I was, and I just didn't know how to get out of it. So the perpetual cycle with like, just because when you're in it, when you're in a state of I know, this is wrong, I'm not getting anywhere. My thinking is terrible. Having been there, I know it's easier said than done to just say if you're struggling, reach out, you know, if you're struggling reach out, because I was struggling mightily. I also have a congenital defect where, you know, a ureter on one side of my body, I believe it's the left side, it's called PJs, what that stands for, I can't remember but like a few veins grow around the outside of it and restrict its growth. So basically, I have the ureter on one side of like probably a six or an eight year old. So you know, the flow from the kidney to the liver is not very strong. So therefore, I drank myself into the hospital multiple times because of that, and you know, they got to know me there. And towards the end, it was increasing in frequency. And even though I knew that, I knew that I on top of things had a congenital defect that that made me more susceptible to drinking myself into the hospital. That still kind of, you know, wasn't enough to get me to stop right? Not that not the first time I dragged myself in there not the second time, I found ways to justify it, you know, and say that it was another reason. And that's why you know, mental health and then helping people is a passion of mine now, because it's so easy to just say, Well, if you're struggling, just ask for help. Well, if you've never really truly struggled like that, you might not actually understand that it's not that easy to ask for help because you feel like a complete and utter loser and waste of a human being that isn't worth the salvage. So if you've never truly been in the gutter Don't know what that is, like, I appreciate the notion of saying, you know, just just reach out and ask for help. And then those messages are still important to be there. But, you know, there needs to kind of be more like taking action and going to the places that these people are, and you know, trying to be a solution for them, then, you know, I'm currently looking at, you know, now that my time is kind of becoming my own looking at more ways that I can give back and help in in different areas. But yeah, I think basically, it just comes down to, you know, living completely and utterly out of alignment with who I was. And I just didn't know how to get a grip on it and turn it back in the right direction. So I just did what was easy and drank more.

Luke Fenwick 20:40 So how, and, you know, everybody told there's always you know, the ego this an ego that but how much of this was just driven by your, your ego, then just covering it up and saying, I need, I need to do this, this is what's going on in the film clips, this is what's happens with the industry, this is like, fucking cool, like, how much of your ego was really driving you? And then how did you? If that was the case, then? How did you start to get that in check? To go, Well, I am living, I'm aligned. So

Sean Oldham 21:13 Well, you know, if I'm being completely honest, the that's my drinking career, my ego was was not even in the slightest bit in check, my ego was driving the bus, right. And it even took a little while coming out of it, even though I understood that, you know, part of the recovery was just kind of like part with ego, and just just like adopt a service model, but I was so entrenched in my ways, I was so entrenched in those old ways that it takes a while, right, we don't all kind of learn at the same pace, but the way I kind of look at it is I just kind of carried my adolescence into adulthood. Because I just thought, you know, continued drinking, continued partying, put off the adult responsibilities of like, you know, building a foundation or, or doing this or that, I mean, I took a management job here and there, but none of them lasted long, I would leave them because, you know, it's like these, these are too constricting, and I'm not free enough to either go travel or party. And you can kind of see where my mind was at. And you know, what, the, my level of thinking was not very deep. There was no really critical thinking. There was no, how does one create joy and fulfillment in their lives? Like, these were not questions, I was really asking myself, I would come I would come across the odd book, read it, find it interesting. But I would not allow myself to go truly, utterly deep, I would just kind of like, you know, keep it on the surface and just be like, yeah, there's a lesson or two here, I can apply to work, but I never looked at it as 'What if I treat my life like work?' What if I really focus on you know, organizing my life to a level where I actually get more time back, because of the amount of effort I put into organizing my life. None of those were were questions that I asked myself, it was just it was, it was just, it was ego man, life was dominated by ego appearance. what other people think of me, approval, like I was an approval junkie, right and approval junkie. And it took me a little while to shed that, you know, into my years of sobriety, because I think like all of us, to a degree require the approval of some people right now. It's only the people closest to me. I want to know that I'm doing right by the people that you know, I truly love and it's not that I'm trying to be a dick with everything else that I do. But frankly there's no joy in seeking the approval of the masses, there's no joy because it's not a winnable game. So you know, I've learned that you know, the the book titled you know, 'The Subtle Art of not giving a F*&%k' you know, you know how that finishes but yeah, he's bang on with what he writes in that book, right? Like you're you're you're you're you're playing a game that is simply not winnable, if you're seeking the approval of everybody else out there in the world. And you know, with social media today that's amplified and on steroids, right. Like I feel for all of the kids that grew up after the iPhone, and you know, grew up grow up with these, like comparison envy screens in their face at all times. But you know, that was my life, right? comparison, envy. Why do I not have this? Why do I not have that? Well, let's drown it all out. Instead of creating a plan and going after it and living my own life, let's just drown it out with more booze, right? That was just the easiest way to deal with it. And it's the one that I chose even hosts the worst possible way to deal with life.

Luke Fenwick 24:25 So in essence, you were having a level of, even though you're kind of living the high life, so to speak, and you're out partying and doing all this other stuff. There was still a level of dissatisfaction with what was going on. So hitting the bottle enabled you to what to just cover it up more.

Sean Oldham 24:44 Yeah, and I'm shocked when I go back and tell people that knew me then that they didn't realize I had a drinking problem. Like I'm shocked that I somehow hit it like a little bit until I couldn't anymore but like it And that's again that just kind of speak to the industry, right? Like, it's a, it's just kind of what you do.

Luke Fenwick 25:07 It's just accepted. And it's like "he's just, he's just, he's young, he's having fun. Doesn't matter. He's not hurting anyone".

Sean Oldham 25:15 Yeah. And that's the truth. Like, I wasn't really hurting anyone, I wasn't going out there and trying to start bar fights. I was just, you know, looking to have a good time and be a, you know, a young man that's, you know, looking for the ladies at the bar. And but yeah, it's man is looking back... You can there are no take backs. Right. And I actually don't To be honest, I kind of lost the question here. But I'm gonna finish this point is, you know, there are no take backs. So when I look back at it all, I get asked sometimes like, well, would you take it all back? And I don't even get into that question. Like, I don't even get into that question. Because it's simply not possible. And it gets you into the, you know, what ifs, should haves, could haves. And, you know, there's really no point going there. Instead, there's, well, what did you learn? Right? Well, what did you learn? And what how can it make my life richer now, right. So having gone through, that gives me the capacity to endure a hell of a lot more than the average person can probably endure. And it also gives me the appreciation of absolutely anything that I have now. I still practice gratitude. And it's actually on my, you know, my very big and visual habit tracker that I have on the wall. But I'll never stop practicing gratitude, because I never want to forget, right? I never want to forget that I knew that my next binge could spiral me off of this planet, but it wasn't enough to stop me from doing so. And, you know, remembering you got to take a moment, every once in a while to remember where you were to appreciate where you now are. And you know, knowing what I know now about what you obsess over, is very likely to become real in your life. I use that power for a very, very different outcome now. So the lessons were crucial. And I think it's going to make the second half, you know, second and third acts of my life just so much more meaningful and so much richer, because I went through it.

Luke Fenwick 27:22 Gotcha, gotcha.

So, how, like, How many years did this this go on for?

Sean Oldham 27:51 Um, well, in escalating fashion, because I had a bad habit of blacking out. That started, it wasn't immediate, you know, that wasn't immediate. But I guess the more that you pound your neurons with like, an incredible amount of booze, eventually you welcome in blackouts. And that's probably a sign that you're drinking too much, if there ever was one. But the better part of a decade, right? Like, again, though, in my earlier 20s, it wasn't as obvious a problem not even to me, because yes, I would party really hard. But I would take the signals of a bad hangover as a reason to take a couple days off, or let's take a week off of alcohol. And I had a better grip on no only only drinking, if it was social, and not every outing got away from me, right. So like, there was still kind of signals of hope. But it was really probably around my mid 20s, when I started the habit of drinking at home a little bit more often, right? When I started the habit of like, once I got home, let's have a nightcap. And then a nightcap. turned to two and a nightcap. Turn to three. And, you know, I was waking up incredibly hung over and towards the end, towards the last year in a bit. It was when I was just kind of like, Okay, this is starting to get out of control. But I still couldn't stop it. And, you know, it was to the point where I would need that level off drink before I went into work because I was hurting so bad, right? So I needed to, you know, just, you know, crush one or find a way to conceal one while I was at work to just be able to kind of get through. And, you know, the last several months was was just it was a house of cards. It was really a house of cards, like like it's displayed in movies sometimes where you know, that you are very close to being found out at any moment of the day. And actually like my employers at the time, could not have been more understanding and kind and you know, but But I put them in some shitty situations once or twice, you know, and I probably owe them more than I've given them back and in terms of a debt of gratitude, because they took me back once I was sober again. And I got to kind of work with them in sobriety. And, you know, it was there, they're still good friends. So I'm grateful for that. But yeah, there's only very few people that realize that there was a problem before there was a problem, And basically, if I'm being completely honest, because it was in the back of my mind, and, you know, the seed was planted, and I knew the history on one side of the family, it went on for a really long time, because I knew after... even in my early 20s, after some of these binges, where, you know, I would just go for days, and add in some drugs here and there to just keep it going, you know, I was like, that's on the extreme side of things. Like, I don't think most people that have a good relationship with alcohol, do it like that. But it was still a lot of fun, then, and still worth going back and doing it again. But as time went on, the off switch just disappeared, it just wasn't there, right, like understanding how to take it easy, or just have a few, I probably lost that ability in my, you know, mid to late 20s, where it was, you know, if I just like, had a few, I had to find a way to sneak in a few once I got home, you know, and, you know, have a few more, because a few just was a tease, that was almost frustrating. And that was when, you know, you can't deny it anymore, you know, in like, two to three drinks. It's just almost a piss off. And you'd rather not have them. Yeah, there's reason for alarm.

Luke Fenwick 31:42 Yeah. And in your mind was it like this is, you know, because you made mentioned before of your, your dad, in your mind was at war, this is just kind of part of me. So it's inevitable at this point in time, so I'll just roll with it. And I'll get out of it when I need to get out of it.

Sean Oldham 32:02 Yeah, I, you know, I wasn't really good at looking into the future, then, you know, I also wasn't good at like painting a positive, you know, version of the future either. So, I really was just rolling the dice. I didn't know where it was going to go. I know, I no longer wanted this, I no longer wanted a lot of things in my life towards the end. But I hadn't a clue as to as to how it was going to get better. But I was just, I would say like, my self talk was so bad, that I would say things like, well, I'm just not one of the people that's meant to be successful. Like, I'm just never somebody that's going to be a six figure earner, I'm just never going to be somebody that, you know, is is is is meant to, you know, like, be be fortunate and have a loving family. And, you know, I'm not I'm just not somebody that is like built to ever be a father. And I would just say those things to myself, you know, constantly. And it's hard to produce anything good when you're thinking like that, right? And so, yeah, I decided, I just kind of accepted that, like, well, this is who I am. This is in my DNA. It's inevitable. So, you know, it was until it wasn't.

Luke Fenwick 33:13 So, you know, from the dark kind of light. And, you know, what was that breaking lat moment? Was it a circumstance where epiphany was at a person, when did that light start to break in for you and start to shape towards what you are now?

Sean Oldham 33:35 The light started to break when I could no longer hide it from my parents. And when I was lying on a hospital bed, and my kidney was swelling to a point where a doctor had to draw a line. And basically, like, there was a 50/50 chance I was losing my kidney that day. Because if it swelled past this point, they couldn't control the swelling, it could lead to something very, very bad. So you know, I basically in and out of consciousness was just remember thinking like, oh, my goodness, what am I doing here? Like, Is this it? Like, do I just keep going until I actually knock myself off? Or do I want to just give it a try? So at that point, I started just thinking about my parents a little bit more. And, you know, thinking started thinking about not just myself. And I also just asked myself, I remember asking myself this question vividly, you know, because the only thing I knew I wanted for sure was to be a father one day right because like even though you know, why didn't have a lot of extended family around I loved being around a lot of family in the the chances that I did get to be around family. And I just remember like, man, would it be amazing to just kind of create my own one day, and just be able to do this and like, I like to be able to show up as like that person that, you know, I got deep down I thought there was a chance I could be that person. But that was the question. That was the question. Well I just decided, you know what I'm going to go to a meeting, I'm going to try something new, I'm going to see what happens. And I wasn't one of the people who went into a meeting and it was immediate salvation, I had to stumble a few more times, you know, I would get some sobriety, then I would go back out, I would get some sobriety, then I would go back out, but they they started being at like, longer and longer intervals. And then towards the end towards my last going back outs, was almost immediately, like, what am I doing? Like, you know, I would even like, during the drinking, be able to kind of catch it and shut it off and be like, you know, like, this is just absolutely not who I am, and not who I want to be, I was just reacting to circumstances that I hadn't figured out other ways to cope yet. I hadn't gotten deep enough into meditation. I hadn't fully formed the habits, but, you know, I just, I really started getting curious, like, more and more and more and more, because, you know, I very soon after getting into sobriety, got a pretty good salary job with a large, large Hospitality Group up here in Canada, getting paid more than I expected to right after I just, I pounded out the last of my degree in sobriety, and just got that under my belt, I got a job, I didn't expect to get paid the amount I did. And, you know, like, every once a while, I was lucky not to lose any of those jobs, because the binges never turned into too long of a journey, I would catch myself really quickly. But I remember the last one was just kind of like, no, this is the last one like this is so out of line, and not what I actually like, no part of it was enjoyed not even like the the first couple of drinks were, you know, for an alcoholic, that craving that, you know, I've had a couple and like now, it's just kind of like, Oh, my body is demanding it, even the craving didn't seem the same. And I just kind of like, I shut it off, then I shut it off, you know, forever, like with with with such a confidence. And since then, sometimes we will go through like different, like, there's different roads that people traveling alcoholism, no two journeys are the same. I've been fortunate enough to not be tempted in the slightest. And you know, since that happened, right, so like a little over five and a bit years, when I get to, when I get to this, this August 8, it will be you know, five years now fully sober, with, you know, maybe four binges in the couple of years prior to that, that had me reset the clock each time. But it was, it wasn't one specific thing. It was just starting to think about other people than myself and my parents and just kind of thinking about like, do I really want to do this to them, where if I keep going down this journey, I very likely don't see even my 35th birthday. Because my body's not gonna be able to take it anymore. And so that was part of it. And just like, No, they don't deserve that they don't at all deserve that. So I need to start trying a little bit harder. And the other part was just, you know, I know that I deep down want to be a dad, they only know that's the only thing I've ever known for sure. So like, why don't we see if that might get to being possible if I just kind of tried to go straight and narrow for a couple of years. And that was interesting, because straight narrow didn't come immediately, I had a lot of the old habits that didn't want to do that didn't want to die easily. So it took a lot of work and a lot of a lot of pummeling the ego to get rid of them, you know, and like, it still comes back every once in a while, but I just catch it a lot sooner. And just kind of you know, this too shall pass just let that go. This isn't worth fighting over. But you know, if you haven't, it's been a journey. It's been a wild ride. But that was basically like what kind of started as well, after going to the first meeting, and having some excitement around this. And you know, although I although I did go back out a few times, I kept coming back to the meetings and trying to figure out what are these people have that I don't yet have, right, like they use their lives used to be messes as well, but they seem so happy now. So like that curiosity just got me. And then I just kept doing my own research and book after book after book after book on habit formation, behavioral psychology. You know, evolutionary psychology, like, why do we do what we do? And I shifted my obsession, to something a little bit healthier. And I think that's kind of what saved my life.

Luke Fenwick 39:02 So, tell me a little bit about that. I know that, you know, you've consumed a hell of a lot of books over the time. So talk to me about how books have shaped your life. And was that is that the healthy obsession that you're talking about? Or was it something else?

Sean Oldham 39:20 Yeah, no, it was committing to lifelong education. And, you know, in increasing fashion, in the last probably, you know, three to four years, I really tried to hit like an incredibly aggressive target. But you know, in the years prior to that, I was probably reading about, you know, 20 to 30 books a year, like just coming coming right out of recovery wasn't like on a mission to just, you know, read X amount of books, but I was just like, really curious, reading them at my own pace. A little bit more time to myself, but I was still distracted, still doing some things that, you know, probably were not purpose driven or purpose aligned. But yeah, that continuously coming Back to books, I kept getting called back to books. Because every time I would read one, I would have an insight and you know, just like have a little bit more knowledge that I could apply. And I just kept hearing things from different people, you know. And then one quote that I heard that really started to shift the tide for me in a major way was I'll never forget Bill Gates sang an interview, you know, what would he choose as a superpower if you could have a superpower, and he said, to be able to read faster because no matter how many books he reads, for the rest of his life, he's gonna leave so many amazing books on read, and so much knowledge unabsorbed. And that just kind of hit me right there. And then you know, I kept going at, the more you dive down this path of like self education, the more you find brilliant works, the more you find different ways of thinking, the more you find, you know, a way to challenge something you previously thought, you know, and when you open your mind to getting it right, as opposed to being right. And just learning from all of these people that have put decades of amazing work on the page, you can learn a lot really, really fast, you know, and you can change your perspective and become somebody that now has value to offer the world in a rather short amount of time, right? So I genuinely see reading as a superpower. And I also find it hugely healing and meditative. You know, when I get to sit down with a cup of coffee, and just get lost in a book and just learn, that's joy for me, you know, and I get, it's not that easy to create that habit for some people. But you know, for me, it's easy. It became easy in sobriety, you know, it's literally soothing and the thought of, you know, going on vacation, one of the things that excites me the most about going on vacation is hopefully I get to sit in a hammock, and read a book undisturbed for at least a couple of hours.

Luke Fenwick 41:42 So what really gives you that, you know, energy, you know, to move forward. So what are the habits that really change in you? Like, what were one or two or three, whatever you want to share? What were the ones that you're like, right, this was the the absolute, you know, basement ground floor of the new loft, I'm looking to create.

Sean Oldham 42:12 I was moving in a good direction, you know, working out relatively consistently, and, you know, not going to blame the kid, I'm starting to get back to full, health and, and working out on a very regimented schedule again, because, eventually I do want to start running triathlons. And in about four to five years time and the kids are old enough, you know, entertained Iron Man's again, but honestly, they like people that know me, well, I'm gonna laugh, but something that really, really clicked for me probably four years ago, four or five years ago, when I heard David Goggins first podcast on Impact Theory and my relationship with fitness and what I considered hard changed in an instant. when I heard arguably the world's hardest man right only person to have ever done Hell Week Navy SEALs training three times in one year only guy to have made it through the training of like three elite, you know, army military units, you know, and ever in the United States, ultra marathoner, you know, get his book of world record holder for pull ups in one day. So a guy who literally takes on every challenge he can, for the sake of doing it, and to hear him say in that interview, no, I absolutely hate running. Right? You think somebody that runs ultra marathons and does all these things loves running and he's like, in doing that, I callus my mind and let it know that we're always going to take on the hard things and always take on the challenges and it's you know, and I'd heard it in Buddhism too, right? That all life is suffering, but hearing him explain that in his way that you have to suffer, right? Like if you want to, like get some form of greatness that you have to suffer, you have to endure it like a lot of things that I had learned along my journey kind of crystallized in that moment. And you know, I immediately signed up for a triathlon after that, and I've done a few since then couple half marathons. And you know, I've got a I've got a road bike and I love going for like a 60 to 80 kilometer rip, you know, every couple of weeks and, you know, just keeping myself fit however I can. And that was a big thing that was a keystone habit, as Charles Duhigg says, In the Power of Habit, you know, is the habit that cross pollinates a lot of other areas of your life and you know, really digging into the fitness habit and you know, taking on the races, you know, with COVID-19 I haven't really gone to the pools since that started. So I haven't swam in a little over a year and man do I miss that, like I missed that, like you wouldn't believe but working my body in different ways, redefining hard and pushing my body way past its limits. And you know, realizing that like that forced me to evaluate all of my habits as well and be like, no, there's a lot more room for efficiencies here. There's so much I'm leaving on the table, and it's time to start taking even more action now.

Luke Fenwick 44:58 So you know, you're talking about how of mind health of body, you were talking before about this vision of being a dad really started to shape you so, so what have you learned from failed relationships that kind of, you know, shaped you to now as well?

Sean Oldham 45:14 Well, what I realized in past failed relationships was, they all started on a false premise, right, all of my relationships that failed, you know, both parties, you know, brought some things to the table that, you know, resulted in it not working out, I'm not going to look back and take the blame for everything, although I made my fair share of mistakes. And, you know, probably was was was more my fault than anybody's that they failed. But basically, I was thinking, I was overthinking everything, right in these past relationships. And I was thinking about, who does this person want me to be right, and based on what you see out there, and popular culture in the movies, the massive acts of bravado of pageantry, and all of the above is, you know, I missed the most crucial thing is that if you want a relationship to last, then you have to lead with who you truly are, you know, you have to you have to be yourself. Because if your partner cannot be content, and you know, love who you truly are, then that relationship is always going to have some issues, even if you make it work, there's going to be some friction, and there's going to be some discontent, because it is incredibly difficult to sustain. an alter ego is incredibly difficult to sustain who you are not, right. And the relationship that I'm in now is the first one, that from the start, I've been myself, and she's known the ins and outs of me and known the ugly and the good, and still made a choice to move forward. And, that to me is, you know, the will that deserves me bringing my best, right and that deserves you know, me really, really making an effort but also not selling myself out and still being myself. And at times there's need to stand your ground, there's need to set some boundaries, right, but because I've led with who I truly am, and not tried to conceal any parts of that, it succeeded. Because I lead with vulnerability I lead with, you know, like, this is me, take it or leave it, I'm working on things I'm working on me, I know, I'm a good person, deep down, I really do. But you know, this is me, all of it, the whole story. And that is what the difference maker was.

Luke Fenwick 47:37 So. So the truth, in essence, is the thing that's, that's just really risen to the surface, and you're no longer covering up or pushing down, like you might have done those many years ago. And now you're going well, this is it. Right?

Sean Oldham 47:52 This is it. This is me, you know, you get me and that comes with a lot of energy that comes with speaking my mind that I'm working on a filter, but you know, I don't have much of one. And you know, that's that's just who I am. Right. And I know that I know that not everybody is going to love it. And that was the thing I used to not get. And it used to bother me. And it just, I don't go through life anymore. I don't I don't go through life trying to be an asshole and trying to kind of be like, well, it's my show, take it or leave it actually quite the opposite. I look to be of service more than I ever have. Right? I you know, I've got a few clients that I coach pro bono, right, I'm always looking for a way to be able to kind of give back and make the lives of people in my life better. Now I'm trying to take about a step further and think about you know, which charities do I really want to dig into, and create a relationship with and work with, right, that really means something to me. So, you know, I'm as I as I get more I'm trying to kind of scale to give more. But yeah, it's it's so much easier, man, it is so much easier to live life as yourself. It just you're not hiding anymore. You know, there's no duplicity. There's no, what does this person think I am? What did I What? How did I act with them? What do I need to kind of maintain? How do I need to be with this group, right, and I see people I see people to do, and I'm just like, Man, I wish I could shake you and just convince you to just be yourself all the time. But you know, especially back in the old corporate world, the amount of people that you see put on a face for this group and put on a different face for this group. And then for these people, they're this person, right? You know, ultimately, that's why I don't think corporate was for me in the long run, because I just get so sick of that after a while, right? I can't keep being what I need to be for this group and then who I need to be for that group. I'm just much better being me all the time. You know, and when I get to do that, life just seems to work a little bit better.

Luke Fenwick 49:45 So you go from the struggles that we've talked about, go through a few jobs, get into the corporate world and then, some in investing and then you start to head towards wanting to be a coach, a life coach, which is where we connected, you know, the Jay Shetty school. But now talk to me a little bit about where those shifts came from why that happened.

Sean Oldham 50:13 So the just kind of like stepping out of corporate Well, the company had a great track record. And, you know, I'm truly grateful for so many of the lessons that I learned that, you know, business wise at that company. It was a, there's a lot of great opportunities. But I got recognized in my second last year with the company for you know, it's a nationwide company in Canada, really large restaurant group, and I got recognized, as best performance and leader development, and that just kind of opened my eyes to some things. And it's, you know, I didn't love everything about the job, but I just kind of accepted that not everybody gets to love everything about their job. And I was like, You know what, that's a pretty shitty story to accept. And I just looked at that I'm like, this is what I'm truly passionate about. And it's showing, you know, the leader development side, and helping people believe in themselves and helping people that had no previous experience in management, become very successful managers. But it wasn't just by teaching them the technical it was by teaching them the mindset, right? And are you willing to endure? Are you willing to do the things that the other people chasing the positions you're after, are not willing to do so you continue to rise above them. And it was before I even had a structure. Before I even had gone through any type of certification, I was still shining through in the area that I loved the most, which was helping people grow, right, helping people get past their own blocks and their own barriers and achieve better in their lives. And I just kept thinking to myself, if I could create a life where I was doing that a lot more of the time, where like, the part about this job that I love the most was what I was doing all the time, that would be a pretty rad life. So that's kind of again, through asking myself better questions. I keep finding myself in better places. And how that recently played a role is I just kept thinking to myself, how can I combine my love for finance and my love for investing and my love for coaching? So I'm not an investment trainer. But for me, IQ test wise, I've always been a relatively smart guy. But emotionally, I was a disaster. I was a complete and utter wreck. So I couldn't put the pieces together and start seeing money grow, even though theoretically, I understood what needed to be done. So it wasn't until I got the emotional quotient under control, and started understanding the trigger points for our behavior and why we behave the way that we do that I was able to kind of figure out, Okay, well Stop panicking. You've studied this, you've started the history of the markets, how they behave pre post recession, what triggers them, what causes bubbles? You know, I just like started reading every bit of, you know, investment and money literature I could get my hands on. So I found myself now I just signed up for a year long course with the rule one investing team. Because, you know, now I've just kind of realized No, like, it's okay to love finance, it's okay to be infatuated by how money flows through this world, and how the different markets work and how people behave around money, and you realize that it's its own world entirely. And even though some people like to pretend money doesn't exist and like to demonize money, well, it's in all of our lives, whether we like it or not. So that's kind of through again, asking better questions, I realized, I want to combine those things, I'm going to take this year long, basically, call an MBA and investing and just, you know, become the best possible investor that I can, and continue to learn and I won't be done there. I will keep learning on top of that, because that's kind of how I asked the questions now. It's like, how do I continue leveling up and get more enjoyment out of this life. And for me, the more knowledge that I have, the more that I can learn, the more value I can bring to the table for other people, the richer my life gets, right. So that's kind of how it kind of came to be at this point, where I went from kind of working corporate without questioning it and saying, well, we don't all get to live the life of our dreams, right? At least what I got is pretty good. And then it just kind of got to the point where I was like, I'm having a kid. Now, I don't want to just work for somebody else and work my ass off to help propel that person's dream. I want to give a shot at figuring out what it would be like to live my own. I really do. And, you know, since then, I've been giving it a go. And like I said at the start of the show, I have felt all of the emotions this year like what the hell am I doing? What am I thinking, an entrepreneur. Me? What? and had to go through some lean months, but then you know, it's weird how things just happen to work out when there's passion behind it. When the motivation is pure, you know, like I had my best financial year ever without a traditional job before I was really bringing in a ton of clients because I prepared myself for the next recession. I would be ready and I would capitalize On the back end of that recession, right, and I did, and, you know, it's, uh, it just made me realize that a lot of things are possible, and that I did do the homework and that I did study, and that I was right, you know, and like my account every month was showing me that, that I did that right, that I was patient. And then I did do the value investing approach. And it made me they gave me the best financial year of my career that is now funding this, and now I'm having another great year financially, that is exceeding what I made in corporate, and I wouldn't have believed that to be possible with the way I thought even you know, three, four or five years ago.

Luke Fenwick 55:37 So if someone's sitting there, and you, if they just can't conjure up the, you know, emotional energy, or, you know, they just can't take that step that plunge to actually make change, and, you know, go where the heart wants to take them, then what do they do?

Sean Oldham 55:58 You know, just talk to somebody strength in numbers, right. And this isn't a shameless plug to go and hire a coach. But you know, talk to somebody, right? Open up a book in a field that you are interested in learning about, you know, just stop going it alone, let go of the ego. If you actually study the most successful people on this planet, they have a team, they have a lot of resources at their disposal, they don't rely on solely their mind, they have a network, right? The bigger these people get, the more they need a team of people to support them. So lean on other people, people have a very strange willingness to help when you reach out for help. It's in our DNA to be of service, because that allowed the human race to get to this point, right, it was necessary for survival. So try to find a mentor if you can't find a direct mentor, find a mentor and books, right, just open books on subjects that you're passionate about. That's why I'm crazy militant on getting my clients to adopt the reading habit, right? I provide them with three books that I want them to read over the course of our three months together. And what's what's blowing my mind is that most of them are getting through these books in the first month, like once they start understanding Holy shit, what have I been waiting for? Why have I not been reading these books that are gonna help me learn so much so fast about a world I thought I would never understand? Then the habit is engaged, and they never lose it, right? Because that's a true superpower in itself to be able to continue to absorb information at a crazy fast rate. So my my answer again, you know, kind of went off on a tangent, it's just learn from people smarter than you just be vulnerable enough to know that you don't know very much, right? There's a there's a quote from the book Zen mind, beginner's mind that says, you know, in the experts mind, opportunities are limited. But in the beginner's mind, opportunities are limitless. So stop thinking like a bloody expert, because none of us are we always we all have more to learn, and just be vulnerable enough to think like a beginner and always be learning. And that's when life changes.

Luke Fenwick 58:05 Yeah, well, it's the whole story about when kids are learning to walk, isn't it? Right, that there is no failure in that, and adults are not laughing at them when they're falling over, you just kind of go with it. But what is the biggest reward you've experienced thus far in your coaching? And how do you use that to build momentum and take you forward?

Sean Oldham 58:25 It's like, I've had to get better at taking compliments and accepting that, like, Yes, I am actually creating these changes, you know, but it's, it's when, you know, somebody tells me that, like, you know, you've actually changed my life. And it's like, well, well, I guided you, right, I did not change your life, you made the choice to, you know, do this and change it yourself. But, even thinking back to one of my practice clients, who, you know, just got a text from her. And, she, like your sessions changed my life. And there, they were only like a few sessions, and I still didn't fully know what I was doing. And I was like, Whoa, there's some power here, you know, what I mean? Like, there's some real power here. And I just kind of, you know, I've been getting these signs for a lot of my life, like, you would be really good at this, you should do this, you should, you know, do be on radio, or you should, whatever, and I just never honored those thoughts are honored those ideas now I explore them till the end of time, and we'll never stop exploring them. Because, you know, now that I've gotten like a little taste of it and gotten past imposter syndrome and keep getting the same results for clients. I'm realizing that I'm only gonna get better at this not worse, you know, and I'm only going to be able to provide even greater transformations for people right in life and in business, when it comes to the relationship with money so that they can get out of their own way and start living the life of their dreams because honestly, people are so much closer than they think Luke like most people are so much closer than they think. They just need to consistently apply some of the things that they either thought were Hocus Pocus or you know, thought that they were not the spiritual type of person. So they don't really do these things or you know, It just really just changed my relationship with the truth and be okay with the answer that No, I haven't given my all to this point, you know, I've actually been a bit of a lazy bastard, but I'm willing to change, you know, and it just starts with taking mirror, look at it and answer truthfully. That's that's the starting point.

Luke Fenwick 1:00:17 I love that. All right, so let's start to bring this this to a close. You know, as everybody now knows, this is about, you know, conversation for a better tomorrow. So, you know, what are the lessons from today that can be applied to future generations for a better tomorrow? What does that what does that mean for you?

Sean Oldham 1:00:37 To me kind of based on on this conversation, it's just embracing vulnerability and embracing what you don't know. Just just let's let let go of this like trying to save face, let's let go of this trying to, you know, get tons of approval from tons of people, you're probably never going to know, and start going forward, needing more of just your own approval, right, because like, you know, Joy is only going to happen if you honor yourself and live a life that is authentically your own right in alignment with who you are. So you know, my lesson and then and, you know, in the interest of kind of allowing, having better, like future generations having better tomorrow's is mimulus, let's throw a little bit of that into the education system, right, a little bit more introspective work into just helping kids figure out who they are, and maybe help them, you know, help them find purpose a little bit sooner and not have them fall into the society scape path. We're like we dialed we talked about a couple episodes ago about how you know, what used to be number 17 on the list of kids interviewed is now number like two about you know, I want to be famous. We're like community and like giving back and being of service, or now sadly, further down the list and just being rich and famous. Or number one and two, you know, it's like, well, what have we done to make that kids number one values, right, let's flip the script. start helping kids live purpose driven live that actually benefit this world? So that we can cohabitate as friends with this lovely planet and not be exploiters of it.

Luke Fenwick 1:02:07 Gotcha. Gotcha. Thank you. Thank you so much that love that. That's no, that's beautiful. Beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing all that. How do you how do you feel after our first long format conversation with yourself? How are you feeling?

Sean Oldham 1:02:24 You know, I feel good Luke, because if anybody can kind of hear this and you know, start honoring themselves a little bit more, and just start asking themselves questions that will lead to a little bit more joy and fulfillment in their lives, then I feel great about it. And like I talk about it now, as much as I can. Because when I was initially coming out of sobriety, out of sorry, what I was just getting into sobriety, I still hadn't made peace with it. I was still very ashamed. I was still living with lots of guilt and shame. I hadn't forgiven myself yet. So when people would just kind of ask me about drinking, or did it? I just said, No, I don't drink. And I just hoped that they wouldn't ask another question. And that wasn't allowing me to fully be my authentic self. Right? So I don't lead with it now. And just kind of I don't like meet somebody and say, Hi, I'm Sean. I'm an alcoholic. But I absolutely do not refrain from sharing the story in its fullness. Because maybe somebody can learn from it. I'm not No, I'm no longer hiding from a major part of my history, that there is no me without that part of my history, right. So it's actually cathartic to speak about it. And I actually very much enjoyed the opportunity to do so.

Luke Fenwick 1:03:36 You kind of talking about at the start a really struck with me, you don't look at it as, as there could be a sliding doors moment, you don't look back at and say, Well, if I didn't do that, then there'd be something else, you really embrace it and go, Well, this is my truth. And this is what it taught me and, and if there wasn't for that, then there wouldn't be this now. And I'm okay with that.

Sean Oldham 1:04:01 Well, it just, it just means like, you know, I do a lot of visualizing now, and I do a lot of looking into the future now. And like trying to really crystallize that vision, so I know what I'm going after. And to me, it's just gonna make reaching that mountaintop even greater, because I'm going to be able to help so many more people. Whereas before, I would have just wanted to keep it all for myself, and that's why I think it all kind of had to happen, because now I'm really focused as I get more on, how can I give more, right and I'm not sitting here saying that I'm going to be able to change the world. But you know, we need more and more people with a lens like this thinking, you know, how do we kind of give back and make the world better for even just a handful more people at a time.

Luke Fenwick 1:04:41 Absolutely could could not agree more. And that sounds like a really good place to start to wrap it up. So I just want to say thank you, Sean. I want to say thank you to listeners. If you've enjoyed this absolutely, like, share, tell your friends about it. We'll be back in a couple of weeks for the next episode. But be safe. Be present, be you and Sean.

Sean Oldham 1:05:05 And please, please seek fulfillment.

Luke Fenwick 1:05:09 I love it, everybody. Take care bye for now and we'll speak very very soon.