Finding opportunities in opportunities (E13)

+ Transcript

Conversation for a better tomorrow - Episode 13

Finding opportunities in opportunities

Jessica Williamson 0:00
Leaning into discovering I guess who you are and what really lights you up, because I see so many people just doing just doing and, and everyone has a choice and even when I was sort of working full time, I thought I had to wait until I was making certain amount of money before I could quit my job. That wasn't even the truth that was just something that I just made up a rule, you know, out of out of thin air and how often do people really stop and think you know, what is the worst that can happen if I go after my dreams, but so many people leave it leave it sitting there as a dream. So...

Luke Fenwick 0:41
Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining us for Episode 13, Founder of Ete swimwear and Somewear Elsewhere and influencer travel agency, finalist and winner across multiple years and the Telstra Business Awards. Self confessed introvert but that is far from a roadblock to this incredible story. Blazing a path and a million miles an hour, a risk taker with unlimited beliefs. A strong giving and courageous woman that is never to be underestimated. Jessica Williamson is this week's guest. And she raises a powerful question for so much in her life that we all should ask ourselves more often. And that is, let's find out how to make this happen. Let's get into the show. And he is so much more.

We are back. Welcome back, everybody. Sean, awesome to see you. Hello, Jess. Hello, Jess. Over in Perth on the other side of Australia. Sean, Vancouver from all corners of the planet. Sean, how are you first? You good?

Sean Oldham 1:54
Good. Yeah, still on countdown for baby number two inside of two weeks now unless she decides to come early. So yeah, just yeah, time moves really fast. It's kind of crazy. But But yeah, Jess, how are you doing? It's breakfast for you. How's your morning been? How you doing today?

Jessica Williamson 2:12
Yeah, it's good. I started with my oats and my matcha latte. So it's been a good morning so far.

Sean Oldham 2:19
Got it, Is that the routine? Is that how the mornings go?

Jessica Williamson 2:22
Yeah, every morning looks a little bit different depending on how I'm feeling. But usually, that's how it goes. I don't drink coffee so matcha is their drink for me?

Sean Oldham 2:33
Hmm, interesting. I've been I've converted to more tea recently. So I'd be interested to hear why but that's for a different show. So, Luke, how are you doing?

Luke Fenwick 2:43
I'm good. I'm good. That's a lovely coffee mug you've got there, Sean. That's a big a big...

Sean Oldham 2:49
Oh, yeah. You know what I had it made because I thought I lost my other one that we got given from the school and the move. And it turns out I didn't lose it. So now I just have this extra mug.

Luke Fenwick 3:00
No, I'm good. I'm good. We we are just rolling with the punches here in Melbourne at the moment. But But life's good. The kids good. Everyone's a daycare, little Billy's doing her thing. She's squealing at everything at the moment. I've got a little four month old Jess. So yeah, she's she's fantastic. But let's kind of get rolling straight into it. Jess, congratulations on the recent achievements before the launch of your swimwear label at 22. And your travel agencies somewhere elsewhere. What was your world about like amazing accomplishments at such an age? What was your life like before all of that happened?

Jessica Williamson 3:42
Yeah, I was actually working in digital marketing at the time. So I, you know, finished high school, I went to uni, just because I thought that that's what you had to do. And, you know, I went to uni, and I did a marketing and management degree. And then I ended up working in marketing for a while which I was working at quite a big telco here in WA and managing, you know, quite big budgets in regards to digital marketing. So that was pretty cool because they had a takeover of the business and a lot of my managers left. So within six months, I was almost running the whole digital marketing department from zero to 100 in no time, but it meant that I got a pretty big handover from all the agencies and everyone above me and that's something that I really thrive on is you know, Chuck me in the deep end and I'll swim but if you're undressed right, me I'll get quite agitated. So that was awesome because I got to learn quite advanced skills in digital marketing, which was pretty helpful when starting an online business.

Luke Fenwick 4:46
Yeah, I could I could imagine did I'm really curious when they threw you in the deep end and you were you're paddling away and head above water. Was there anybody and you don't need to know names, but Was there anybody that may be underestimated you That kind of, you know, clearly made a mistake.

Sean Oldham 5:04
And didn't motivate you because I was gonna ask the same question. It sounds like you use that as motivation...

Jessica Williamson 5:10
Yeah, I mean, people see me as like this quiet, you know, sweet girl, but like, I've got a fire under my butt. Um, you know, people, people do underestimate me, because I come across in that way. But really, you know, I've got huge motivation, determination. And, you know, there was a manager, who had never done any ounce of digital marketing and liked to micromanage. So, I found that very frustrating. And, you know, I got to the point where I almost just Well, I did, once I started my swimwear brand, I was still working there for a whole year. And I got to the point where I just checked out, that wasn't my priority. I went to work, I did what I needed to do, but I didn't go over and above, I didn't try and share my ideas, because I knew they would just get shut down. And I thought, look, I'm just gonna use my, my, you know, drive and my passion in my own business, which is where I started the swimwear, and that kind of took off pretty quickly.

Sean Oldham 6:11
Mm hmm. I like that a lot. I want to dig to the early days a little bit. And, you know, just kind of reading an article that you wrote, you said that what self proclaimed introvert, which is another thing that somebody is probably not going to just assume right off the bat, if they're looking at your, you know, social media profiles or your accomplishments. And you wrote how you once thought this was a weakness, right, like you used to, you know, think that that meant that you were, I'm not gonna put words in your mouth, but several businesses later, and now a successful business and mindset coach... Being an introvert, really, maybe even a secret weapon for you.

Jessica Williamson 6:52
Yeah, I mean, for so long. And society is sort of built in a way where you're encouraged to work in groups, and even at uni and school, and they push you to work in groups and do public speaking. And, you know, it's sort of, well, I got, I built this belief, basically, but it is sort of a common, commonly held belief that, you know, if you're quieter, you're not as confident and maybe you're not as capable. Because you're not screaming it from the rooftops. And I, I found that really prevalent when I finished uni, I had done, you know, five plus, in what I call internships, I did five plus internships, I up leveled myself, I did, you know, Google ads training, and all of this extra stuff, just in my own time, out of my own interest. And pretty much every other uni student went to uni, did a bit of partying, graduated, got a job, because they were confident and, and more extroverted. And I went for all these interviews, because on paper, they were like, wow, these girls got a ton of experience. And I never got the job. Because in the interview, a lot of the feedback that I was getting, because I always like to ask for feedback, which, you know, is a good growth mindset, I guess. And so the feedback that I always got was, are we just not sure if you will be able to hack, you know, the fast paced, digital agency side of it, or we're not sure, if you'll, be too overwhelmed by everyone else who's super loud. And you know, there was all this feedback coming through. And so I thought, right, so I need to be louder. And I need to be, you know, have this extroverted persona, in order to land a job in order to succeed. And so for so long, I was trying to be this extrovert ideal, which just is not natural, like, I'm not the screaming from the rooftops, I'm quite quiet. But when I do say something, it has an impact. And that's why I love the format of you know, podcasts and social media and things like that. And I think a lot of people confuse being confident with being an extrovert. And so because I am a little bit quieter, yes, I can still show up, you know, on podcasts or on my social media confidently, because I'm passionate about what I have to say. But put me in a room, if you put me in a room, a networking event or something like that. Most of the time, I'll be observing, I'll be listening and observing and soaking everything in rather than being that person that everyone hears, and you know, everyone's crowding around. Sometimes I even speak and people don't even hear me. I'm like, Hello, I'm here, so I get overlooked and underestimated all the time. But I've realized that that is a huge strength, especially in the work that I do as a coach. And I love working one on one, you know, a lot of coaches have moved into, you know, group methods and things like that. But as a coach, I naturally am a listener, because as an introvert, we listen, we observe, we sort of scan the environment, whereas extroverts sort of go in and they're like, here's the answer. Here's, you know, here's what you need to do, and This is just obviously a blanket, there's obviously people on all ends of the spectrum. But, you know, I've realized that there are some huge benefits of being an introvert. And when that clicked, I was able to then lean into those a lot more and really play to my strengths instead of keep pushing me as extrovert ideal that I was like, I don't have to jump on my Instagram stories and be like, Oh, I'm having a party, you know, I can jump on and just say what I need to say. And, and that's the delivery method that I am. And then now that I've realized I'm showing up more as myself, I'm now attracting more introverts. You know, a lot of my clients are introverts a lot of the people that, you know, messaged me, they're like, Jess, I'm an introvert. And I've never thought of it in this way, as well. So I think that's really powerful. But it's hard, because people are always saying, Be yourself, be authentic, be yourself. And I'm like, cool, but how can I be myself on steroids? You know, because that's what everyone wants to see. But when I realized that, hey, actually, when people talk about being themselves, you often see people saying, Oh, you know, I've always been taught to can't be a potty mouth. So I'm going to be a potty mouth, because that's the real me, I was like, do I need to start swearing more? Or, you know, do I need to start doing this? And that, because that's what everyone's saying is their true selves, and I was just so confused. But now I realized, Hey, I don't swear, like when am I? Why am I gonna start swearing at 28 years old? When I don't really swear, you know. And so I think that's something that I wanted to speak about, because there was no one showing me that that was a pathway that you could take in, you know, being your authentic self is, you know, if you are quieter and more an introvert, that's cool, too. And there's strength in that.

Sean Oldham 11:47
But I'm not gonna hog the mic. Look, I'm gonna give it to you in a second. But I just want to say that that was awesome. I resonate with that immensely. You know, because it took me a lot longer than it took you to realize that I was also you know, introverted. Like, again, the scale is different for everybody. You know, because I always played team sports was pretty good at kind of mimicking people. I always seemed like the extroverted person. But I was forcing that, right. Because again, I saw that that's kind of what made you successful. So I was mimicking, I didn't find my authentic self for a long time in life, and you were bang on and I can't resonate enough with being able to connect on a deeper level with your audience once you are truly yourself. Because again, I've next time, I can't say this quote word for word, Luke, just call me out that I actually need to look it up. But Gandhi said something along the lines of you know, when your words thoughts and actions are all in line, like that's when you're truly joyously fulfilled. Right? And again, that's not exactly what he said. But along those lines, so I've got interesting question to ask you follow up, but I'm gonna pass it to Luke first, because huh...

Luke Fenwick 12:49
I know it's just, you know, it's Yeah, it was beautiful, what you said and talking about introverts, I had to, you know, claim to be one of those. And I think the thing for anybody that's sitting out there, it's like, where do you find? Where does that energy come from for you? And what really resonated with me is what someone said one day, you know, is what do you what do you seek and for me, I get my energy after the fact of when of being around people. So that opportunity to kind of, you know, chill out, reflect, relax, and then that's where it comes from. So after something crazy happens, I don't seek my community for them to fill my batteries back up. Once I really started to wrap that around my head, I was like, okay, you know, right, like, I can do these things, exactly what you're talking about, just like I can go to events, I can engage, and I can stand up in front of 1000 people and talk. But it's not necessarily where that energy is going to give me that abundance and joy later and after the fact. So I think it's really powerful message that you don't need to be the loudest person in the room or the most, over the top in order to bring value is substance knowledge and beauty to a situation. So you know, keep sharing yourself, no matter what that is, if it's about bringing that beauty owning.

Jessica Williamson 14:05
And I love that you touched on the energy. So you know, when I talk about introverts I grew up in, you know, being quieter and shy and things and those aren't, you know, technically, definite traits of an introvert it is what you said, you know, the energy side of it and getting the energy from being by yourself. And so, for me, I spent a whole week by myself, I don't really see anyone, I don't even really see my boyfriend, you know, I see him on the weekends, that's when I can then have a full tank of energy to you know, spend with him. So, I show up on podcasts, and I chat to my clients and do all this during the week. And so, I need to be by myself, I don't want to talk to anyone. I don't want to, be social. And so it might be seen as anti social, but for me, it's the way that then I can recharge and instead of then entering the weekend on a 50% battery, I can enter the weekend on 100% and you know, whoever I'm getting too see on the weekend and hanging out with, they get my full energy, because I've taken that time to recharge.

Luke Fenwick 15:06
Yeah. And it's important. And sorry, Sean, I'll hand it back in a sec like that. And that's important for those around you that not most to understand that from you. Because you know, you're not being anti social, it's just, you want to bring this great version of you, and being around people all the time doesn't allow you to deliver that. So it's important for those people to embrace that of you as well. But yeah!

Sean Oldham 15:31
And there's one more thing that I have to ask from that article, you already kind of answered it a little bit, but I'm referencing the Dali quiz. Now, I have no idea what that is. But it was at 12. Luke, you got it. That's, that's, you guys must know what that is. But I have no clue. But anyhow, at 12, you realize just for people that will not have read this article that, you know, you did like a quiz with your friends, and you seem to know all the ins and outs about them, but they couldn't really, you know, find these things out or didn't have these, you know, same truths registered in their minds about you. And you did some dissecting about kind of what that meant, right? But you kind of set it in your last answer about your strengths as a listener. Right. And, and where, you know, making a perceived weakness, a strength, what role did that play in where you are now, and your business success and your ability to find opportunities, you know, your ability to listen, because, you know, there's a book in my library called "just listen", right. And it's a skill that I've had to develop over time. But I have a sneaking suspicion, and this has played a fairly large role in your success.

Jessica Williamson 16:41
Yes, so Dolly, if anyone that doesn't know, Dolly magazine, I don't even know if it's still around. But it was like a magazine aimed at sort of, you know, 12 to 17 year olds, I guess, you know, so, girly magazine, and they used to always have these quizzes in the magazine. And so, me and my friends, you know, we were having a sleepover as you do when you're 12. And, you know, we all do the quiz about each other. And it was like, how well do you know your best friends? And it was questions like, what is their favorite food? And you know, all of these kind of things. And I could answer every single question about every single person there. They couldn't answer one question about me. And so at the time, I felt really upset by it. I was like, Why don't they know me? Maybe I need to talk more about myself. And so then I got into my head, and I was like, you know, whenever people would be chatting, I would be trying to insert myself and be like, hey, but this is about me. And this is about me. And this is about me. Because I was like, Well, obviously, they're doing that in a different way to me, so I need to talk about myself more so they can know me. And so for so long, that felt really unnatural. And I didn't even realize and it wasn't like I was being narcissistic, or, or super over the top. But it was just this, this messaging going through in my own head, and I was like, Oh, I need to tell them about this, or I need to talk about myself. And it just felt so unnatural, in a way. But now, I mean, I only realized that recently, when I was sort of looking back on what all the things that sort of led me to this belief that being an introvert was worse off. And so I remember this memory. And it was only recently that I realized, actually, I should have been the winner. If you know, if there was a winner at that quiz, I should have been the winner because I knew all the answers. And that just meant that I was listening, truly listening, not sitting there and and thinking about, alright, when's it my turn to talk? When's it my turn to talk? I was sitting there and truly listening deep listening, not just in one ear and out the other so that I can have my turn to talk. And so now that I look back, I do I scan the environments, you know, I have quite high emotional intelligence. I really judge situations. And I always, you know, whether you believe it in believing or not, but when I was younger, I always thought, Well, I think I might be a bit psychic or something because I just know things. And it was probably because I was just scanning the environment without consciously thinking about let me scan the environment. But I was listening to every single thing that people said, I was watching body language, I was, you know, observing everything without really knowing. It's just like a natural thing that I did. And so therefore, I knew things about people without them ever telling me. And that's been super beneficial. And I feel like that's where I've really found my purpose in the coaching that I do because people don't realize what they're doing. And so you can teach those those skills and things as a coach, but for me, I'm able to see things in people before they even have to voice them to me.

Luke Fenwick 19:52
Gotcha. So an introvert, a psychic. A coach and someone It's certainly you know, really in tune with what's going on, you know, in yourself and those around you. But, you know, life often deals, you know, lumps and lessons and I'd love to understand maybe in a different shade what the most valuable lessons and lumps that have been dealt out to yourself, um, that still holds, you know, some weight today and resonates with you.

Jessica Williamson 20:23
So many, I think everyone says, you know, starting a business is the best personal development course you ever take, especially, you know, in the beginning with my swimwear brand, I was just making it up as I went. And I think, one of the most, so many, so many lessons that I could share right now. And I think just having that realization about who I am and that's actually a strength and looking at that as a strength, it was one huge realization, and that was only recently, but, um, one of the biggest, I guess, lessons that I had, but also knew from the beginning, when I did start at the swimwear, and all my other businesses was that you kind of just say, yes, and then you figure it out, you know, everything can be worked out, found out, learnt, you know, there is always a solution for everything. And so, you know, a lot of clients and things come to me and they're like, but Jess, I don't know how, or I don't have time, or I don't have money. And I said yes to, you know, going to New York Fashion Week, after one week of being in business selling barely anything, I'd spent my life savings on my whole collection. And one week after I'd launched, I was invited to New York Fashion Week. And at first I thought it was a scam. I was like, Who the heck is emailing me. Now, that was a whole accumulation of a lot of actions and decisions that I made. They didn't just email me out of nowhere. And it wasn't luck. But that's might be another story for another time. But basically, I had no money. I was working full time, I was 22, I was going to be in an Australian showcase with top Australian brands that I've looked up to for a long, long time. So I could have said, Who am I, I don't have money. I don't have even any annual leave when I'm working this full time job. And so there were and you know, I had to make a whole new collection. Before I went, you know, there was so many reasons that I could have said no, but I didn't even see any of them. I just thought this is gonna be a great opportunity. I'll say yes. And then I'll figure it out as I went. And guess what I figured it out. And that's only because I decided that I'll figure it out. You know, I didn't sit there and dwell and go into a spiral on all the reasons why I shouldn't do it. So I think that's kind of the first you know, week one great lesson in business. And that's kind of the the main ethos that I've taken with me throughout everything is sort of seizing every opportunity, figuring it out. If you have a big dream, don't wait, you know, just go and make it happen. Really?

Luke Fenwick 23:03
Yeah so... you know, it's about if there's a door that opens then you're walking through it, you're not going to stand on the other side of that door thinking, you know, what's behind it is the light on is this going to lead to a wonderful thing. You're saying there's an opening and kind of let's go so New York Fashion Week, as you spoke about outside of the sheer size and difference between New York City and Perth. What was the what was the biggest eye opener for you love to hear it I love New York, by the way, that's that's a price. I will leave at some stage or another. Okay, that's, that's going to happen. But yeah, tell tell us a bit more

Jessica Williamson 23:37
I'm waiting till we can go back. So that was back in 2016. So it's been a while. Um, but in terms of that, the biggest lesson that I learnt from that, that experience was, you know, what I had mentioned already, but also secondly, when you come across an opportunity or make an opportunity to yourself, because I'm a big believer in making opportunities, not waiting for them is leveraging the opportunities so many other of the, you know, there was a bunch of Australian brands, we all went and did a showcase together. And you know, there were celebrities in the audience. And it was just kind of surreal, because there's me on the runway. And then in the audience, I was like this is backwards, but you know, so the biggest lesson that I learned from that is all the other brands they went, they did the show, they went out and had some drinks and you know, whatever they did afterwards, and that was it. And what I did was I hired myself a PR Freelancer because again, I had no money, but I was like, I need someone in Perth, who knows how to do PR and who can get me, you know, into these publications to leverage this opportunity. Because what's the point in doing a show, you might get a couple of Instagram posts and that's it. Let me leverage this, you know, opportunity in this story. And so I got a PR freelancer. I had no money, but I contacted enough people to find someone who would do it for my budget. I did as much marketing and promotion as I could. So I was on Channel Nine news. I was, you know, in Forbes from from that opportunity. I was, you know, in WA newspapers, I was, you know, in in top top publications, because I said, here's a massive opportunity, here's a story that I have, I need to get it out there, there's no point just going to the show, because that gets you nowhere. You know, I didn't really gain anything from it. But what I did gain was an opportunity to share a pretty cool story, you know, in the news. So that is the biggest lesson that I think most people don't think about. And even while I was in New York, I was like, okay, there's a ton of influences in town, because it's New York Fashion Week, there's a ton of media, there's a ton of, you know, buyers for wholesale. So I thought, okay, my friend was also a sponsor of the event. And she did you know, body oils. And I thought, this is a great collaboration. So we actually hired studio room where you sort of can put your racks and then you invite everyone to come and have a look at your stuff. And you have drinks and nibbles. And so we organize that didn't go as well as we thought, but you know, we organized it. And we had a bunch of people come through, not as many as we'd hoped, because everyone's busy and running around town. But, you know, we did these extra things. Because it's like, what other opportunities can I find in this one opportunity, you know, seize every opportunity and make your own opportunities, really. So, you know, every other brand? Like I said, they went, they had some fun, and they went back home. And that was it you know, what did they really gain from that?

Sean Oldham 26:37
I just made a bunch of notes from that little rant there, which was awesome. And, you know, it's funny, because the question that I was literally going to ask you was, you know, something along the lines of what was it like to launch a brand and then get invited to New York Fashion Week within that week? And you went there already? But few things. You said that I love, right? I decided I would figure it out. Right. And there's there's some power in that statement that I decided that I would figure it out? Because it is a choice, right? Something that really inspired me once upon a time was this, you know, something Will Smith said, where, you know, successful people have this borderline delusional belief that everything is going to work out in their favor? Would you agree with Will? Do you have that?

Jessica Williamson 27:21
Absolutely. Yeah. I don't even think it's delusional. Because, you know, you guys would know, your thoughts, create your actions, which then create your reality? And so if I thought I couldn't afford it, then I would have said no. And then I would have had this story written in my mind that I missed out on New York Fashion Week, because I couldn't afford it. No, I definitely couldn't afford it, you know, you've got to fly there pay for models, like New York's an expensive place, you know, all the marketing that I did around it, but I figured it out. And so you know, whether that meant I had to save a bit more money here, or, or, you know, make a bit more money there, or, you know, you always find a way. But the thing is, until you decide, it's never going to happen, if you you know, it's that old saying which that hard party is people don't believe this until they do it themselves. And so even with my clients, I'm like, believe it, and it will happen, you know, you've got to believe that it's possible first, otherwise, it will never be possible, you know, you believe what is your reality? And so many of my clients like, yeah, whatever Jess. And then they do it. And I push them a little bit further and little bit further. And it happens. And that, for me is like the most amazing thing that could ever happen for them. Because so many people do not believe this, you know, they might get business growth, they might get, you know, whatever else. But if they can just get that one realization and see it in action for themselves. That's something you almost can't teach, and people won't believe until you do it. But I always had that natural sort of tendency, you know, so that was probably something that, I guess, you know, maybe I picked it up from my parents or somewhere along the line, or it's just naturally how I thought, but I think that is really, really powerful. If you can believe, believe in yourself.

Sean Oldham 29:11
Well, it's just if you think about it, it's just not really possible to achieve without belief. So why Why do you think so many people resist believing? Like, why is it so hard?

Jessica Williamson 29:24
I mean, you know, it's it comes down to like, limiting beliefs and beliefs are just thoughts that have been fought over and over and over again, until they become a belief and everyone's versions of reality, are different. And so it's not until something like you know, my example with my clients, you know, when I push them to that limit, and then it happens for them, because normally they would give up before then. So, you know, if they keep reliving the same situation over and over, then they become that becomes their truth. So, when we think about everyone's truth or versions of reality are completely different. I always used to think about these as a kid, I was like, What if I see pink as a different color as someone else's, you know, and I was like, through my eyes, we all know it's pink, because we've been told it's pink. But I wonder what other people see. And these are just like, my brain just never stops. So I wonder these crazy things, but that's the same thing, right? Everyone has their different version of reality. And because they believe that, then it creates their reality and then it reaffirms what they believed. So it's hard to get out of that until maybe you have a coach or you have someone that can, you know, change that behavior and help you rewire rewire What's going on?

Sean Oldham 30:45
Awesome. I love that I also loved before I pass it over to Luke, I don't know if you loot use this line. But what opportunities lie within this opportunity? I think if that's a question you consciously ask yourself all the time or not. I think that is awesome. And I am glad we had this conversation, because I am going to ask myself that all the time from now on. So thank you for that. But yeah, Luke, Luke, I've been hogging the mic again. Sorry. Your turn?

Luke Fenwick 31:10
No. So I'd kind of wrote over here, these these purposeful actions that have created this amazing life that you you now are in the middle of or a start of how have you want to look at it. And, you know, we often talk about or talk to clients about is that, you know, a fish doesn't realize is in the middle of the ocean, right? So I kind of look at and say, these purposeful actions that when they started to form for you, did you have any idea what you were actually doing in regards to being purposeful? Or did it just accumulate over time? Like, where did it really just start to crystallize in regards to the more I do this, the more purposeful I am, the more I sees this energy that is around me, and in me that will steer towards this destiny that I have.

Jessica Williamson 32:01
Yeah, I'm, to be honest, I never consciously thought about things to begin with. You know, even when I started my swing my brand, I had no experience in manufacturing, or business or anything I had, you know, marketing, but marketing for corporate versus your own small business is completely different. So, you know, from the beginning, I just kind of did, and I was like, I want to start a business. I've got five ideas. I'll choose one. What's the next step? I need a manufacturer, let me figure out how to manufacture done. And within, you know, six, seven months, I had launched my whole business online, flew to Melbourne did my photo shoot, you know, did all these things. And I never actually stopped and asked myself like, Why? Why am I doing what am I doing? Why? It was just like, what's next? What's next? What's next? And so that's why now that I can look back, it was all mindset, like 100%, all mindset, because you can give someone the tools, like all the answers are on Google, we live in an age where all the answers are out there for anything you ever want to do. Or you can find someone to learn from or, you know, whatever it is, someone's done it before you. So if we live in an age where all the answers are out there, and we can pretty easily find how to do it. Why do people not do it? Because of mindset. So I do think mindset is something that came somewhat naturally to me, but I'm forever growing, you know, there's always new challenges being thrown our way. So it wasn't until probably three, four years ago, and I was part of this, you know, quite a big mentoring group. And they made us do an hour meditation. And I was like, Oh my gosh, like, I didn't meditate at all. And I was like, This is so damn boring, like, when does it end? And you know, what else do I have to do? And I'm my mind was just like thinking elsewhere, and then I'd come back. And then, you know, first time meditations run into an hour, it was a lot, so. But anyway, in that time, I obviously got into a meditative state. And something just came into my head. And it was like, you need to be doing mentoring coaching for young females, because there was no one. I mean, coaching has really, you know, evolved a lot over the past couple of years. But there was no one who looked like me to look up to you know, like, even at that time, the coach that I was working with, was, you know, a middle aged male. So I thought look, that just that thought just came to my mind. And from that moment, that coach actually pushed me into, you know, they actually paid for me to do some coaching and I worked with them for a little while as a coach under their business. So it wasn't until that moment that I actually realized, this is what I'm meant to be doing. Like doing my swimwear brand was fun. But it caused me so much anxiety and stress around certain areas. And I was like, Oh, it's fun, but it's not you know, it's not quite right and then I started five other businesses. This is, and I again, we're like either jumping on a bandwagon that I thought it would call, or this sounds fun, or this looks like you can make a lot of money. But none of it was really true to my core. And I think I wouldn't have been here if I didn't do those other businesses, though. So it's just like an ongoing progression. But I think the key is, through all of that you really learn who you are. And then once you know who you are, well, I still, we I think we're all still discovering, but you know, once you have a pretty good idea of who you are, then you can be more purposeful, on Wow, I really, truly feel like this is where I'm meant to be. And I feel like now I'm getting paid for being myself, you know, which is pretty cool.

Luke Fenwick 35:48
I've read you talking about intuitive talents, and the importance of cultivating them for people, and you just mentioned, you know, purposeful, and how purposeful you are, if a door opens your walk through it, you know, you just kind of figure it out along the way. But what about those people that are sitting there listening to this and saying, Well, you know, I'm talentless, you know, I don't have these abilities. You know, I don't, I don't walk through that door. Like, you know, it's just not a natural thing for them, then, you know, what do they do? You know, as the coach, they walk in, they talk to you, they go on zoom, and they say these things like, what do you do? Where do they go?

Jessica Williamson 36:24
Yeah, a few things with that. So, guess what, four years ago, if I was asked to be in a podcast, I would not be here. I would not. So all throughout school, even at uni, my body would shut down. You know, people say that they can't public speak, and they don't like public speaking, I would be at uni, my face would be so red that it would hurt me and it was hurting, like so so red. My brain would just evaporate. I was like, Where's my brain? God, there's nothing in there. You know, and partly because they make you talk about stuff you're not even interested in. But secondly, because I just have this fear of public speaking. And it was just so crippling that I couldn't ever show up. You know, I wouldn't be showing up on Instagram, I wouldn't be showing up on anywhere. But what I did was when I went to New York Fashion Week, and when I was like, how can I get this story out there? How can I get my business out there? I've got no money. I reached out to a local girlboss event. And I knew that they had speakers. And I said, Hey, do you need someone to speak like, I've got this story. And she said, Look, I've already sorted the speakers. But I'll give you a five minute segment. And you can talk about that. And so she gave me that opportunity. I practiced for about four weeks for this five minute segment. And all I had to say was, Hey, I went to New York Fashion Week, here's some photos. And that was kind of it, which was all stuff I knew. I practiced for like weeks on end. And I had like millions of sleepless nights. And then when I got there on the day, I forgot what I was saying there was only about 30 women there. And it's pretty casual, like not too, you know, high intensity or anything. But I was so nervous that I was flinging my arms around, and I threw the clicker on the floor for the slideshow. And I broke the clicker for every other speaker for the whole day. I completely broke it. And so that didn't go that well. But what I realized from that was that after the event people came up, they're like, thank you so much for sharing that. That was really cool. And I was like, Are you sure? Like, did you see what I was, you know, what I felt, you know, it was pretty terrible. I was fumbling over my words, and you wouldn't have been the best public speech, you know, and but what I realized is that, if one person could take away one thing from what I had to say, then that makes it all worth it, you know, and for me, just understanding that balance of fear versus purpose or fear versus, you know, obligation to, you know, inspire and help people. That helped. But it still took me, you know, five years or so to get here. And so even with my very first podcast interview, you know, three, four years ago, I was so nervous, and they had to send me every single question, and then I scripted out what I'm going to save every single question. And when you're in that mindset, it's not the best to script because then you're worrying about Oh, shit, I forgot that word, and then it messes you up, but my brain wouldn't work any other way. Whereas, you know, I'm jumping on here for an hour plus podcast, and I didn't prepare, but that is how I can work now because it's all in my brain. And I built that confidence. So if people are feeling like, you know, I don't have a talent or look Jess, I'm just not good at public speaking. So it must not be my purpose. there's a there's a difference. And I would add a disclaimer, if you're not good at something, and or you don't like something doesn't mean it's not your purpose. Maybe you need to give it a go. Or think about what your purpose is. And for me if I want to share a message And help people, then I need to get good at speaking. And so getting out of your comfort zone, and doing things that are uncomfortable is inevitable and something you really do need to do. And, but also finding your strengths. So doing things that you don't like, also helps you get one step closer to the things you do. So if anyone is sitting there thinking, Oh, I just don't know what I want to do. And that's where I was five years ago, when I started my swimwear brand. I thought maybe I'll do homewares, maybe I'll do clothing. You know, I loved all these things. And I was like, I'm just gonna choose one and give it a go. I didn't sit there and analysis paralysis and think, which one is the perfect idea? To be honest, I probably chose the hardest one I could have chose swimwear is seasonal. And people have body image issues, and they don't like to buy it online. And you know, I couldn't have chose a harder thing. But I still made it pretty successful. So, you know, I think the challenge, the biggest thing that I would say to anyone sitting in that position right now is try try something. And guess what, if it doesn't work out, if you know, if it's not great, it will make you stronger, you will learn something, and you will learn what you don't like so that you can get one step closer to what you do. Like I said, I wouldn't be here right now, if I didn't do all those other five businesses to figure out, you know, who I am and what I like to do.

Luke Fenwick 41:26
I love it. I love it, Seann.

Sean Oldham 41:29
Yeah, no, that made me think of, you know, because fear, fear stops so many great things from happening. So many people from you know, living out their purpose, as you mentioned, and it makes me think of a Mark Twain quote. You know, "I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened", right. And that's what happens when people stay up here and never take an action. And I love that you shared that. Now, I want to go into the future a little bit, because you've done so much already. And it's it's been quite impressive to hear. But you know, beyond this current point, right? You love on your Instagram, it says, you know, helping female entrepreneurs get out of their own way, right? I love that. Because we all need to get out of our own way sometimes. But you know, where does the business go from here? How do you reach more people? How do you get your message out there even more?

Jessica Williamson 42:20
Yes, so funny. You asked that question. So in July, I had planned to go to Sydney and Melbourne and do some pretty awesome events with some pretty awesome speakers. And so July, you know, everything was going great in Australia with you know, no lockdowns, nothing July hit, everyone locked down Sydney and Melbourne. And then so Melbourne came out of lockdown. And I rescheduled it for the start of this month. And then the night before my event, they went back into lockdown. So that was a challenge. But that was really where I wanted to take things. Because I feel like having in person events creates a lot of hype, and people can really connect and pay attention. I think, after the past two years, people are a bit over, you know, online content a little bit. And I'm always providing online content, but I think being present in a room, there's no distractions, you know, they're not on their phone, because you can see them and you know, they're a little bit more attentive. And so you can have more of an impact in that way. And also, you know, reach people who maybe didn't know about me before, in a way that their friend heard about the event, and then they invite their friend along and things like that. So I was really hoping to do more events in person. But you know, those are on pause for now, because Australia's not doing so well. But I am in Perth over here and WA so fortunately, you know, all of our borders are closed here. But that means that we don't have any lock downs, which is great, but it just means that I can't leave the state. And I haven't left the state in, you know, almost two years, but pre COVID I was flying to Melbourne every three weeks, which is pretty crazy to think on now. So I'm really hoping to do more in person events, you know, I'd love to come over to, you know, internationally come over to the states or you know, wherever, in the future, but we'll just have to wait and see on that. But I do have my own podcast and I'm really trying to, you know, grow that so that I can reach more people with sharing some of my experiences and also just thoughts, thoughts that pop into my head. And I think let me share this because you know, that is a platform and format and that's why I'm so excited to be here chatting to you guys because I like to talk I am an auditory learner. So I like to listen and then talk, visual, I get a bit distracted and you know, all these other sort of reading takes too long for me. So I really love you know, an auditory sort of platform to get the message out there. But to be honest, if I think of an idea, I'll do it right away. So I'm not someone who has like five or 10 year goals. If I have a goal, I'm going to do it right now. I'm not going to wait to work on it. So that's where I can't really say too much around what that might be. But yeah, I'm hoping to reach as many people as possible.

Luke Fenwick 45:23
I'd like to like to change it up, if I can so overworked and burnt out. I was reading this about you, you know, lots happening in your life. And I'd like to understand how that unfolded for you. And, you know, what are the red flags that you need to be really mindful of in yourself now, given the ambitions that you have and how you're looking to grow these but talk to us a little bit about that, as you said, you know, you're in Perth, over in Melbourne at the moment, everybody's locked down, and we know anxiousness and burnout, anxiety, all these things really ramping. So what is what's the messages you'd love to share?

Jessica Williamson 45:59
Yeah, so so many, so it looked different for me at different points. I mean, after my first year of business, going to New York Fashion Week, you know, building up the whole business, working full time, not prioritizing my health at all, I've always prioritized sleep. So I'm never someone who's pulled all nighters or anything like that, but I wasn't eating properly, you know, I was just grabbing what I could on the go, because I didn't have time. And so you know, in my first year of business, I hit adrenal fatigue, severe burnout. And that's at the point where I just decided I've got to quit the job, because right now, my mental health is not great. My physical health is not great, you know, everything was suffering. And so once I hit that Roadblock, or I guess that challenge of severe adrenal fatigue and, and mentally, not, not having a great time, and that gave me a really valuable lesson. But naturally, and I tell this story sometimes, but when I was a kid, I used to run everywhere, because walking was too slow. And so I used to run around the house, and I would bang into the walls, because I try and cut the corner too close. And I just like, smack into the walls, and I would use my arms to bounce off the walls and run around because walking was too slow. So I think something's in built in me in, you know, some adrenaline or something that I go a million miles an hour. And that's kind of what I said, you know, if I have an idea, I'll do it right away. But I have been working on a journal for the past year, and I'm learning as I go, because I set myself a target of January, just past to get that journal done launched in manufacturing. But here we are in, you know, August, and I'm only getting to it now. So I am learning that things can wait. And no one's gonna steal my idea in the meantime. So I don't really need to rush too much. But everything's an ongoing process, I'm learning to slow down more. And this year, I, you know, I think a lot of us realized after 2020, that slowing, we need to slow down, we need, we need to slow down and it can be quite valuable to slow down. So before COVID, I was on a plane every three weeks flying, you know, around, it would take me a week to recover a week to pack again, and then I'd be off again. So, you know, last year gave me a really good insight into, wow, I actually it can value slowing down and I can still achieve just as much. So this year, I made my priority, my health. And you know, just probably checking in with yourself and asking, you know, how am I going? How am I feeling. And now that I give myself more space in my schedule as well. So I actually put in my diary in my Google Calendar, have a bath, like eat breakfast, and I never scheduled those things in before. And I would just be like, well, I've got, you know, 10 hours in the day, I can fit 15 minutes for this, 20 minutes, you know, I would jam pack it and then I get to the end of the day, and I didn't do half the things didn't probably have any lunch break either because I didn't have the time. So for me it was about actually scheduling it in because otherwise my brain keeps going. Sorry for me something that was really helpful was Yes, scheduling it in, doesn't always go to plan and nothing ever always goes to plan. And that's something that I work with my clients on they like. Jess, how do I make sure that I get all my things ticked off in the day? And how do I make sure that I stick to my exact schedule and plan, it's never going to go that way, it's never going to happen. But if you don't even have a plan, then it's not even going to be close to happening. So for me, the biggest part was scheduling. I scheduled like an hour and a half to two hours for a lunch break. Because I know that sometimes my work encourages on the lunch break and then if I don't allow that extra buffer time, then I might opps Miss lunch announcing the you know the next task. So that's the way my brain works. I know a lot of other people were like the opposite side of the spectrum and they distracted by all the washing or cooking or whatever they want to do in their day. Around home, especially if they're working from home. But for me, I'm like nothing else would happen, you know. So just putting into place a structure so that I have those things, you know, having a bit more of time in the morning for a bit of a routine and starting that routine the night before has been really key because I would be on my phone on like, tick tock or something so useless, you know, pretending that I'm doing research for my own content, I'll be on there till midnight, and then I wouldn't have a good sleep. And then in the morning, I would hit snooze. And it would just start the whole day off badly. So there's a whole bunch of things that I think are important, but I think everyone has a different threshold. So for me, my threshold is pretty high in terms of stress, and how much work I can get done other people, they might only be able to do one thing in the day, and then they need to, you know, take some time out. So I'm learning to pull it back. And, and really just tell myself, it's not that urgent. I put these own deadlines on myself. And as entrepreneurs, we're the only ones with deadlines. You know, no one else is gonna know if my journal didn't launch in January. So those have been huge things for me, but it's all a work in progress.

Luke Fenwick 51:18
Yeah. So the deliberative choice and purposeful inaction, I think is something that everybody needs to embrace to some degree. It's not about planning at every single moment of the day, if that's not a natural fit for you. But that purposeful action and deliberate choice can be powerful. Sean?

Sean Oldham 51:40
I'd like to go back a little bit, because I think you've hinted at this earlier, when, you know, you were mentioning, I did University, because it's what you were supposed to do. I'm paraphrasing. So you know, those weren't your words? Exactly. But, you know, I'd love to know, you know, if you could go back and give the younger you, which, you know, probably a decade ago, any little bit of advice, right, we'll say coming out of high school. And you know, this is more for, you know, a younger audience, or really anybody at any phase of their life, you know, what would that advice be? If you could go back and just talk to that version of just?

Jessica Williamson 52:13
Yeah, I think kids, kids have an amazing opportunity these days, because now you're seeing the rise of the teenpreneur, and, you know, kidpreneur, you know, all these cool things that you see as actual possibilities. At the time, no one had businesses, I actually chose to go to uni. And I did management as my as my degree, because I thought at the age of 17, I was like, I'm going to be a CEO one day. So management would probably be a good degree to choose if I'm going to be a CEO. And for me, the idea of that was just working my way up in corporate and being a CEO. So I always had that way of thinking, but no one ever showed us that you can, you can create whatever the heck you want, you know. And it was only Yeah, like 10 or so years ago, but there was no one doing it. And now everyone, you know, everyone's having their own business, even more so from last year. And I think it's really, really awesome to see people just breaking all the rules these days. And I think that's really, really awesome. But to be honest, I don't regret. I don't regret anything, because at the time, I didn't know who I was, I knew that I wanted to be a CEO, but that was about it. And that's me look like someone in a damn suit. And I'm never in a suit now. Sorry, I think that that was still, I guess, coming of age or growth, you know, phase and it gave me opportunities. I got to go on, on exchange to New Orleans and do some study over in the US and just some really cool life experiences throughout that process. So yeah, it cost me $30,000. And really expensive, I guess, growing up, but I wouldn't regret it. But I think if I was growing up now, I probably would be a kidpreneur because I remember when I was about 12 or so I asked my mum and dad, I said, I want to buy a house and they said Jess, you can't buy a house, the banks won't give you a loan. And I said, why not? I want to buy a house. I'm going to buy a house and they're like, Jess, it's just not even a thing. Like you can't. And imagine if someone told me, how about we figure out how you can? And I'm sure there would have been ways but imagine if someone said to me at that age. Amazing! Why do you want to Why do you want to buy a house? Alright, great. You want to buy it because it looks like a good investment. And I didn't want to live in it because I needed to leave my mom and dad but you know, I if someone had said to me at that time, let's figure out how you can buy a house or how you can be involved in my parents had, you know, investment properties if they said Hey, how about we get you involved? In what we do, you know, we us, you can be involved in the process. Imagine what that could have done, right. So, you know, I think these days with seeing our kids and other teenagers and other people doing all sorts of things, I think it's really cool, because it just shows others that they can do it as well.

Sean Oldham 55:20
I absolutely love that. And, you know, before I pass it back over to you, Luke, it's sad, because there's a lot of, you know, kids that grow up with, you know, parents or people close to them that with the best of intention, pass on their limiting beliefs, because they can't see that world happening. Right? So, you know, the, how common is it for them, you know, the loving parent to say, Oh, well, that that sounds pretty out there. Like you should have a backup plan or two, and then, you know, adopt belief, adopt belief, and then all of a sudden, you know, the risk taker and you slowly dies. Right? So I thought you said something about, you know, what if the narrative was, let's find out how we can make that happen. Right, because there's this Robert Kiyosaki. I love that. Roberts. I don't know if you've read his book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". But he would always have this thing where he wouldn't accept. I can't afford it. It was always How can I afford it? Right? So similar concept. And I think if we teach kids that or just have them finished with that question, or what if everything works out? Or what's the best that can happen? and have that be their default question? Some amazing things can happen.

Jessica Williamson 56:33
Yeah, and I won't even get started on the school system. But imagine if we taught that? That is literally all they would have to teach. We don't have to know anything else. That is all they would have to teach. And we would just change the world. So yeah, I love that.

Sean Oldham 56:48
I'm actually going to be speaking at some schools this year, I've just kind of locked that in. And, you know, I've got to be careful, right to not go against their curriculum, but there will be little elements of that. It's also an addiction and everything as well. But, man, we could talk, we could go another couple of hours. So we're not going to go there today. But yes, the education system needs an overhaul?

Luke Fenwick 57:09
Well, I'll ask you this, I am happy to go there. So I think it's a great question. And I'm certainly happy, you know, a few people have actually brought it up, you know, when we when we talk, but if you were in a position of power, and you could make a change in the educational system, what do you think that would be?

Jessica Williamson 57:32
Um, look, I understand why it is the way it is. And teachers do their best, but I just think that it's too one size fits all, you know, and, and that's why so many people don't know who they are. Because, and look, it would take a lot, you know, you'd probably need more of like a one on one approach, or, you know, a much smaller approach. But, you know, it is one size fits all. And I remember specifically and this memory is ingrained, so deeply, but I was in year seven, so however old, you know, 11, and the teacher handed out all the worksheets, and I was starting to do the worksheet, I know how to do it. I know how to do it tells me the instructions, feel it out. Like it's not hard. But the teacher was explaining to everyone else how to do it. And I got told off, I got told off because I wasn't listening. I was like, why do I need to listen, I know how to do it. I'm not being disruptive. I'm just getting on with it, you know, so they teach these these, these things that you can't think for yourself. And so I think that is an all teachers are different. There are some some great teachers, but they teach that you can't think for yourself. And you have to do it the way that the teacher wants you to do it. What if I know a better way? What if I'm even smarter than the teacher? You know? And and some kids and kids are great, because they have no, you know, they have less limiting beliefs than you know, older people. And so kids probably could be more wise in certain areas. Yes, maybe maths there is a right answer. But for other things, or methods of ways of doing things. Why can't we encourage that? Hey, Jess, Jess seems to know how to do the worksheet How about Jess, you tell everyone how to do it. And then, you know, you can have that opportunity. So I think it would be really cool if they sort of taught people how to find their strengths. And then the teachers were able to work to everyone's strengths differently.

Luke Fenwick 59:30
Yeah, thank you for that answer that kind of threw at you the last moment, I think shout out to the teachers out there that do an incredible job. But I think the challenge that they've got is that they're bound by history and curriculum when it comes to the things that they can and cannot do at the moment. So...

Jessica Williamson 59:47
I was just gonna quickly say my favorite favorite uni teacher. And at uni, normally the teachers just read from the textbook and they're like, here it is. And that's it. My favorite uni teacher said, Guys, and she was the only one who had actually worked in Marketing, all of the others went to uni, graduated became a uni teacher. And so she was like, Guys, scrap the curriculum, I'm going to teach you what I want to teach you. And we're going to just make sure we tick off the boxes that you can pass and get your degree at the end. But she said, screw the curriculum, I'm going to give you what you need. So I thought that was really cool.

Luke Fenwick 1:00:19
Awesome. I love it. I've got one more question. And then, which I cannot find at the moment. So I'm gonna have to actually wing it. But now here it is. Actually, I can't find it. So the question is, so, you know, what would that next chapter of your of your life book look like? You know, you talked about a journal before, which really sparked some amazing imagery in my mind. But if you're writing that book, this next chapter coming up, what would the name of that chapter be? What's it about?

Jessica Williamson 1:00:49
Um, to be honest, I have been thinking about writing a book, but I don't necessarily like writing. And I've been trying to think, what would the title be? For some reason? This is just a thought that I've been having regularly, what would the title of my book be to summarize everything? And I feel like it's got something to do about being underestimated. Look, it's a work in progress, but being underestimated and, you know, showing everyone that you can do it anyway. Something like that.

Sean Oldham 1:01:24
Yeah, right. finding opportunities in opportunities. Yeah, thanks. I'd read that book. I would definitely read that book.

Luke Fenwick 1:01:35
Awesome. While Sean I'm not sure. If you got any more questions, otherwise, we might start to bring this thing to a close.

Sean Oldham 1:01:43
We're pretty much getting there. Towards the end here before we kind of give a little wrap up question. But first, Jess, I mean, we'll put it in the show notes as well. But where where's the best place for everyone to find you and connect with you out there on the worldwide web?

Jessica Williamson 1:01:58
Yeah, the best place to find me is my Instagram @jess.williamson8. And honestly, my DMS are always open. I'm not one of those people who you know, I always check other folder. And I get excited when when people do message me. So I'd love to hear from you guys, if you have enjoyed this episode. But that's the best place I sort of share everything through my Instagram. I've got all the links in my bio, but otherwise, my website is just jessicawilliamson.com.au.

Sean Oldham 1:02:29
Awesome. Okay. So I highly recommend you look into you know, what Jess' world is all about. Cuz, you know, if you've listened to this point, you've probably gotten a lot of value and a lot of inspiration. So I would say dive in. But you know, seeing as the title of this show is, you know, conversation for a better tomorrow. In your mind, in your opinion, what is the most important conversation that you know, we all need to be having right now? In the interest of creating a better tomorrow?

Jessica Williamson 1:03:00
Hmm, yes. Oh, yes, we've we've touched on so many things. I think all of all of the above that we've spoken about would definitely be really cool. Um, yeah, I feel like we've kind of covered a lot of what I would say on that one. But I just think, you know, leaning into discovering, I guess, who you are, and what really lights you up, because I see so many people just doing just doing and, and everyone has a choice. And even when I was sort of working full time, I thought I had to wait until I was making certain amount of money before I could quit my job. That wasn't even the truth. That was just something that I just made up a rule, you know, out of thin air. And how often do Do people really stop and think, you know, what is the worst that can happen if I go after my dreams, but so many people leave it sitting there as a dream? So, you know, I would say, stop just doing and start, you know, asking yourself, what do I really want to do? Because life is passing by right now. You know, even with everything that's going on in the world right now. Years are still passing by, you know, we can't wait for things to go back to normal, you know, in, in inverted commas because it's not. This is this is life right now. So I think that would be one thing that I would say.

Sean Oldham 1:04:28
I love it. So don't let as many gifts go, you know, to the grave, undiscovered. The world needs more people to dig in and just kind of share what they have with this world right now. I like that a lot.

Luke Fenwick 1:04:42
Luke, awesome. Awesome. I love it. Jess. How you feeling?

Jessica Williamson 1:04:47
Good. That's awesome chat.

Luke Fenwick 1:04:50
Beautiful. All right. Well, that that sounds like a perfect place to close. So you know, with that everybody that's sitting out there. Thank you so much listeners. If you're enjoying this like, share, subscribe, tell not your next door neighbor because you told them last time tell the other neighbor. We'll see in a few weeks. Sean, Take care, Jess. So, so good to meet you. Appreciate you coming on and everybody. Be safe be present, be you, Sean? Be fulfilled. Awesome. Jess?

Sean Oldham 1:05:31
Perfect way to end it right there.

Luke Fenwick 1:05:33
Alright everybody. Bye for now.